The Big Picture: Consumer Issues (Feedback)

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Consumer Issues (Feedback)

I received the following emails after I mentioned in passing a few consumer glitches I had with my own holiday shopping (2004). These are unedited; The last name and email addresses have been removed to protect the correspondents' privacy. (If anyone wants their comment removed completely, please notify me).

Here is your feedback about recent experiences:

01/07/2005 07:53 PM PST

Consumer Purchases -- rebates!

Hi, Barry:

Ahhh, rebates. I have given up on them. I would rather eat the money than fill out a thousand pieces of paper only to be rejected because I was supposed to fill out a thousand-and-one.

Warm regards,
Matt
North Hollywood ,CA

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01/07/2005 05:39 PM

Barry,

I enjoy your column.

We purchased a new Hewlett Packard all-in-one printer, fax, and copier in December. This device is a great idea; since it supposedly works on a wireless network. What a neat concept! This would allow us to use one wireless printer for all of the PCs in the house.

The hardware is great, nice crisp copies and printouts.

Unfortunately, the software is horrible. As bundled, it loads everything imaginable on your computer, then proceeds to throw error messages at you for days. The software is buggy, requires a separate critical patch which they dont tell you about, forces you to uninstall all of your old printers, and requires your own IT guy just to get it to work.

It is apparently not really compatible with most home wireless networks. I am constantly rebooting my Linksys routers and PC machines to get this All-in-one to work on occassion. It works only when it feels like it.

This is the HP Photosmart 2710.

Thanks again,

Rich
aol.com
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01/07/2005 05:15 PM

Hello Barry.

This year my wife and I were exceptionally fortunate in that everything we ordered was pretty much as expected and without a hitch from beginning to end. This was not the case in some years passed. For instance about three years ago I decided to build a new PC. Believe it or not nearly EVERY component was a problem from CPU to hard drives, incompatible RAM bought as a package with board (it went to a third try on the motherboard before I got one that worked) and chip, I went through 4 using both Maxtor and IBM, and yes, even the router didn’t work straight out of the box! When I tell most people about that string of bad luck they have a hard time thinking I am not making it up. I wish I was making this up because my good deal cost me plenty!

In the awesome category on the PC side was AMD. Comp USA was awful (oh, did I mention problem parts were not limited to online purchases?) and I cringe over going there anymore. However the internet site that botched everything with the motherboard, CPU and RAM deal was by far the worst.

So, call it a run of bad luck and try not to get down over it too much. Just make sure you have all of your paperwork in order and beware of restock, return shipping fees and times involved… these costs truly screwed me!

Sincerely,

James
Garfield ,NJ
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01/07/2005 10:39 AM

This holiday season, I made probably 90% of my purchases from online vendors with, for the most part, much satisfaction. Mostly Amazon.com.

I did encounter a minor problem with Staples. The chair I ordered was three days late arriving even after receiving daily automated phone calls assuring me I would receive the chair that particular day. When I received it, the driver told me he had 85 deliveries scheduled for one day! Seems humanly impossible. Funny thing, Staples double-shipped the same chair the next day.

One very cool product I bought was an iPAL by Tivoli Audio. Amazing sound from a small package.

Regards,
Mark
adelphia.net

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01/07/2005 08:37 AM

Barry,

Funny you asked about consumer purchasing/service.

I have become a believer in buy on line. I have generally have had good luck. Last experience was a case of light bulbs from a distributor in Texas for a cost less than half of home depot and there was no freight or tax so I spent less than a third of the cost. The order entry was easy, email confirmation and email from the shipper with tracking information and a link to FedEx to track the route.

Customer service in other areas I have found awful. The classic worst is the telephone company. Our local service provider is Sprint and our service includes a second line, a DSL and a few features. We get a 7 page bill that is totally incomprehensible. Several months ago I attempted to initiate an administrative change, to change the method the service was billed. This turned out to be a horror. Our service was disconnected, and three months later I am still trying to get the bill corrected. I have communicated with at least 40 people in the three months- both by phone and email. What I found which was a significant change in service which I have experienced in other areas was that all of the people I encountered appeared to be able to find the information about my account on the computer; they could speak with me intelligently and they could claim to resolve my problem……………… HOWEVER, NOTHING HAPPENED!

What I am saying is that my experience is consistently that customer service is generally more pleasant but totally ineffectual.

We too are waiting for a rebate on my last computer CPU, replacement of faulty printer cartridges and several other things. I guess companies come to expect that most folks don’t follow through so they can just ignore solving most minor issues.

Stan
Pittsboro, NC

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01/07/2005 08:02 AM

A recent frustrating experience was the purchase of the new Motorola RAZR. I purchased it from Amazon and it arrived and worked wonderfully as a basic phone. However, it is supposed to be able to sync with your computer, specifically in our case with the Palm OS, and I was assured that it could. When it couldn’t conversations fell on either deaf ears or pointed fingers and the statement you need to talk to the other guys. Basically a run around between Motorola, Cingular, and Amazon. The end result as best I can figure it is that it may eventually be able to do what was promised, but additional software is needed that will be available soon. This resulted in a returned phone with a refund minus some fees like activation and others.

I have recently had some great experiences on Ebay, even when a return was involved.

Mike
Baltimore

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01/07/2005 08:02 AM

Message:
Barry,

I bought my wife the new Apple G5 computer. It is truly a sweet machine. One complaint I have with Apple is that the display computer showed several icons representing software that a user might need. Of course when we opened the computer and started it, the icons were not there. It seems that you must buy this word processing software seperately. It seems to me that if the computer didn't come with this, the display computer at the Apple store should've had a disclaimer. Afterall, a windows based computer comes with a spreadsheet and wordprocessing package built in.

Jim
aol.com

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01/07/2005 07:51 AM

My rebate from IRiver was disqualified

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01/07/2005 07:23 AM

Hi Barry,

Re consumer purchases:

I will say I have had excellent results both from Dell and Apple regarding extended warranty service. My iPod self-destructed, fortunately I had AppleCare coverage. With one phone call, Apple service sent a shipper box. Once I received it, less than 48 hours later I had a new iPod, this involved two cross-country shipments from Cupertino to Massachusetts . Boy what service, both from Apple (and DHL).

With Dell, I had a hard drive problem with my Latitude laptop. Again with extended service, I had a great phone call, and within 18 hours (on New Years Eve no less), I had a new hard drive in my hand, and would have had a technician with it if I had needed one. Less time than it took to rebuild the contents of the hard drive by the way, even totally backed up.

So if someone tells you don’t buy the extended warranty coverage, think twice, at least for certain types of products (these are the only things I have it on).

Happy New Year,

Jill
comcast.net

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01/07/2005 07:20 AM

DELL SMELLS

low cost sure but try to get the rebate and when our ac adaptor on the laptop burned out it took four months and about 7 hours of on the phone with loud boisterous tones to wake somebody up now the battery is burnt from the defective ac adaptor and only live voice was able to get hung up on me after talking for 48 minutes i was given Dell's home ofice and that number was not being answered at all got tired of hearing their hold messages in the office for hours but will try another attempt today to get the new battery replaced pro bono

Michael
Grand Rapids, MI
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My latest favorite gripe is with all the mail-in rebates:

It is obvious that vendors are making these as difficult as possible. The problems I have encountered:

!) Requiring a copy of the original sales receipt which was tossed along with the bag the product came in.

2) Rebate forms with inadequate space to fill in the ridiculous amount of information required.

3) Requirement of a "Proof of Purchase" sticker or emblem or a UPC code on the box that has already been recycled.

4) Ridiculously short time limits to submit the rebate.

The vendors count on the fact that most people will not bother to send in the rebate. I think this fringes on false advertising! No longer will I consider buying a product of any kind because of a rebate. Either they lower the price up front or provide an instant rebate. Otherwise, the product and price will have to pony up against the competition based on the amount I have to shell out to leave the store with it legally!

EH
North Carolina

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01/06/2005 11:34 PM PST

Hi Barry,

Real money subscriber here..I like your candor, keep it up!

Purchases:

Big expensive washer (Bosch) exceeded expectations.
Whisper quiet, does a killer job. Here I am a guy
excited about a washer...!

Coleman Powermate 18V Cordless drill/driver: way cool,
exceeded expectations. Clutch, 2 speed ranges, $36
(costco). Cool.

E-machines PC from Circuit City - exceeded
expectations. Great, fast setup, all peripherals
worked fine with apps & games.

Samsung 'flip' cell phones - tiny, great sound, super
long battery life, cool color screens, better signal
than the old stuff...exceeded expectations.

Dealing with Customer Service: can be very ugly! Just
try getting a human at Qwest (phone service), MSN,
Delta Airlines, etc, who knows their rear from their
front. VERY frustrating.

Barry, I am in tech (I work for EMC) and I see a
trend: higher quality products, more features, fierce
competition, lower prices for hardware (thanks to
china) and overall a higher quality of life in many
ways...except Customer Service!

Cheers,

Dave
Portland, OR

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01/07/2005 06:34 AM GMT

How ironic you posted this today. I spent 3 hours this morning on the phone with Dell customer service (in India, naturally). The laptop I purchased 6 weeks ago has no battery life and, won't recharge, and thus won't turn on. After waiting 4 days for a technician that was promised in one day, a technician who replaced the motherboard and processor (which, as far as I know constitute nearly all of what makes a computer a computer) the PC worked for 12 hours before the problem recurred. Dell graciously offered to replace the machine I bought as new 6 weeks ago with a REFURBISHED one...what a joke. When I insisted on a new laptop, and then a chat with a supervisor, I was told that no supervisor would be available for 24 hours, at which time one would return my call. Shortly thereafter, I was hung up on. I won't buy another Dell product ever, not if they gain exclusive rights to sell all of the available water on earth. So much for that 'famous' Dell customer service.

Rodney
hotmail.com

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01/07/2005 01:14 AM

I've just moved and it will take me two weeks to get my DSL line back up. And I live in Seattle; not the country. Other than that........I don't usually have problems with my hi tech toys.

ted
AOL.com
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01/07/2005 12:33 AM

Barry,

I have a three year old Dell computer on a service agreement. I have had an annoying but not devastating problem with the pc losing it's internet connection after any 1/2 hour or so long sleep, needing to be restarted each time you take a break and return to the machine.

After 8 hours on the phone with a tech support person in India, re installing windows XP and all of my software programs, still no fix. I am in a position of needing to buy a new system to replace the malfunctioning one just because the economics dictate it... How many days of a person's
time is it worth to try to fix a $1500 product? I haven't tested Dell to my fullest capacity regarding making it right but it gets back to is it worth it?

Cheers,

Ralph
comcast.net

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01/06/2005 11:36 PM

Dear Barry,

in 2004 I bought two Dell Laptops which came with a $100 dlr rebate each, one was in March of 2004 the other in June, to this date I have yet to receive the rebates despite my emails and calls, I saved copies of all documentation I originally sent. I resent it 3 months have gone by with no refund. I basically gave up. not only on buyin a Dell but I also sold my Dell shares and forget about Dell for now.

Maurice

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Barry,

Your request is very timely as my wife was almost ready to pull her hair out after dealing with Sears all week—and it is still not resolved completely. We ordered the top of the line Maytag washer and dryer with the full (and expensive!) service package. It arrived, as scheduled, on Monday. For a small fee, the delivery men took away our old washer and dryer. After the installation was complete, they started the washing machine and promptly left.

After my wife closed the garage door and came back into the house, she found water gushing out of the sides of the washer. She immediately shut it off and ran out to attempt to catch the delivery men (long gone!) and then called the customer service phone number. They told her the driver would return immediately. Needless to say, despite numerous calls and assurances, they never returned. Upon further conversations, my wife found that it would take 3 weeks to get another model of the washing machine that we had ordered. It was then decided that the delivery person would return our old washer until the new (reordered) one was delivered. Two days later—there was no washer---after many scheduled delivery times and a lot of phone calls. On Wednesday morning, we were told that the washer would be delivered between 8:30 -9:00 AM . At 3:00 PM the driver (finally) contacted my wife to say that he had had a horrible day and asked if he could “bump” her delivery until the following day as he was running far behind schedule. When my wife said that waiting another day would be unacceptable and explained that she had been waiting three days, he hung up on her!

Finally, a sales person from the local Sears store returned my wife’s call and agreed that she had been mistreated and arranged for her to have a loaner washing machine until our new (and paid for!) washing machine arrives in three weeks. Incredibly, this (brand new!) loaner arrived on time—just as the local store said it would arrive.

It appears that the local Sears store is capable of being responsible, but when the customer service extends to contract help and customer service, there is no accountability and the service suffers greatly.

Joel
adelphia.net

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01/06/2005 09:10 P

Hi Barry...

I bought two f17" flat screen monitors from NEC in Feb. 04...still waiting on $100 rebate each. Received a letter in Nov. 04 saying rebate was being processed. Whatever that means....sheesh.

So...this time...I ordered a 17" flatscreen from Dell in late Nov. 04. Received the rebate in the mail just before Christmas.
NEC lost my business....as they should.

Ted.
Rochester

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01/06/2005 06:05 PM PST

Barry,

As it happens I just had the following coma-inducing experience with Verizon, my mobile carrier.

The day before I depart on a three week trip, my phone battery dies. I go to my neighborhood Radio Shack to replace the battery. There I find that the “extended life” battery they have is $70 – and won’t fit my charger. The ever-helpful guy behind the counter says I should just get a new phone upgrade since it won’t cost any more. (What a coincidence!). Hmmmm. Then it turns out that none of the phones they have on hand has the fairly mundane set of features I want. “Well,” Mr. Ever Helpful says, “you can just return the phone within 30 days if you don’t like it.”

OK, so I get the phone, go on the trip. Don’t like the phone, but it works. Get back, go back to Mr. Helpful. Find out that, yes, he will take the phone back, but Verizon won’t rescind the upgrade, which commits me to a one year contract with them, because they only allow 14 days to return. Oops. OK, so I try another phone from Mr. Helpful. Turns out it lacks several features my old phone had. Back to Mr. Helpful. Try to make it clear what features I want. Turns out they have nothing that meets my needs in stock, but can order one from another store. OK, order that phone. I return and pick up phone #3. Turns out to be a pretty good phone, with the stuff I want and some new stuff I can use. Only $100. Great. Then I check out the data link cable I use to link my laptop to my mobile for internet access and to synch my phonebook. Should work, it’s from the same manufacturer, connector looks the same…. But of course, it doesn’t. Arrgh. And Verizon charged me $50 for the privilege of ownership so I could use more time on their network.

So I start doing some poking around the Web to look at alternatives. I discover that Verizon cripples data connectivity for all the phones they sell, so they can reap the vast rewards due them for their valuable ring tone offerings and such. Smart. Look around more. Find vast confusion about if or when this functionality will be available for this phone. Verizon’s web site doesn’t say, the phone manufacturer’s site doesn’t say, numerous forums offer the only helpful info, but offer conflicting and often incorrect information.

So, pondering the fact that I’ve now spent several hours and $100 to get a phone that won’t allow me to use the functions I need, and that Verizon seems to have planned it this way, I’m not real happy. So I go back to Mr. Helpful and return phone #3 and deflect offers of further help.

A subsequent call to Verizon confirms that: a) no, they won’t undo the upgrade / contract, and b) they don’t have a phone that does what I need – even though these are common functions and other carriers offer phones with all of them. However, the Nice Lady I spoke to at Verizon, after the briefest of time on hold, was extraordinarily helpful and genuinely tried to understand what I wanted and find a way to meet my needs. The best the Nice Lady was able to do was to reset my upgrade status so I could use the upgrade credit if and when they released a phone that did what I needed. Her artful assistance, and reflection that Verizon continues to have the best ratings for both its network and its customer service, restrained my immediate inclination to jump ship to another carrier to get what I want, $175 contract termination penalty be damned.

So now I’m back where I started, and in the process of getting a new battery for my old phone for half of what Mr. Helpful wanted.

That’s the story. It’s absolutely incredible that mobile carriers and handset makers have created the impenetrable thicket of instantly obsolete, incompatible, incomprehensible devices and services to bedevil their customers. Here’s what I learned from this adventure:

   Beware of buying handsets from third-party “agents” like Radio Shack. No matter how well intentioned they may be, if you have a problem, all you’ll get is finger pointing. There are enough opportunities for misunderstandings without getting two different companies involved.

   When you buy a handset, research what’s available using third-party sites like Mobiledia ( www.mobiledia.com ), Consumer Reports, etc. Don’t expect the carrier’s web site or sales people to know what a phone does or how it works.

   Be careful when you buy accessories from these agents and they tell you you’re better off “upgrading”. It turns out you can buy batteries for less than half of what they charge if you buy from battery specialists on the Net.

   Read the fine print on any offers, specials, deals, contracts - any transaction you engage in with mobile carriers. If there is a way they can screw you (errr…, enhance their revenue streams), they will. (Their “instant rebate” offers are the worst – they use them to make prices seem lower, then restrict them in every way possible so only a small percentage will be valid.)

   Newer isn’t always better. Don’t expect a new phone to do what your old one did with some new bells and whistles thrown in. If you do actually use any of the myriad of features on your handset, list them out and be sure the new phone has them as well. Particularly if you rely on having analog (AMPS) service when you are in more rural areas, be careful when you buy a new phone that it will support this – most of the new phones don’t.

   If you use any of the “data” functions of the phone, you’re really on your own. This stuff isn’t well documented anywhere, so expect to spend an inordinate amount of time to make them work if you’re tech savvy – and best just forget about it if you’re not.

   Skype over WiFi looks better all the time.

Look forward to seeing what kind of response you get to this. I imagine you may get more help than you wanted.

Jim
comcast.net

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01/06/2005 06:00 PM PST

At least you got a cell phone refund. We purchased 2 new phones (fancy ones) 'cause of the rebate. Filled out all the paperwork, sent it off and had it returned unopened stating "rebate offer discontinued". Have you ever tried doing business over the phone with a cellular company? So impersonal, they treat you like a number. I'd be curious to know about stores that sales declined this year and stores that increased in relation to their customer service. My experience-service is not good.

Jeff
aol.com

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01/06/2005 08:19 PM

Got my daughter a mini ipod and had many problems trying to get it to work with Windows XP through firewire connection. Gave up after spending about 10 hours messing with it. Bought an iMac G5. The machine is amazing. After being a long time windows PC user I have been stuck to the iMac since I bought it (when I can get my daughter away from it). No crashes, no rebooting after installing stuff. Now, if I can only convince everyone in my office to switch.

Jerry
Jacksonville Beach, FL
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I haven't done extensive purchases, but the Dell Laptop and nice Canon Digital Camera bought for Xmas presents - both worked great. No complaints.

Roger
Houston TX

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01/06/2005 07:00 PM CST

I guess I've had much better luck than you. I have bought two PC's from Gateway with no problems. My son has bought 2 with the same good results, also from Gateway and so has my father. All 6 Gateway's came on time and with no problems. I have used buy.com, Amazon and yesmicro.com with excellent results. Believe me when I say I was very skeptical to buy over the internet, but I have had very good results and positive experiences, so far.

Jim
ameritech.net

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01/06/2005 07:59 PM

Amazon: I ordered some video games and a couple of books on Monday, November 29th, 2004 for Christmas gifts to be sent all to my home address. Regular shipping. The order was to be sent out to me and received around December 10th. Long story made shorter: I got 3 notices that shipping would be delayed and asking for my approval which I gave. On the 18th of December I emailed Amazon inquiring about the order. They replied back it would take them 24 to 48 hours to respond back about it. The next day I got another delay notice that the shipment would get to me "maybe" by the 23rd or 24th. Not trusting that and really needing this stuff for a major part of the presents, I cancelled the order and found myself at Walmart at 8 am to get what I needed. Exactly the kind of trip I was intending to avoid altogether by shopping in advance online.

Best Buy: Last May we wanted to buy a graduation present (Viao laptop) for a special graduate from college. They couldn't drop ship it to the person from the store. Nor could they arrange for the rebate to go to the recipient. So we were going to buy the laptop in the store and ship it ourselves. No can do, only the display model which didn't work well was available. Ok, go home and order it online. Did that. Got several notices that there would be a delay. Then got a notice the model was no longer available as configured. For a mere several hundred dollars more, we could get the new model which wasn't available yet....don't know when. We had already told the graduate that this gift was coming and to look for the package. Four whole months later we got the graduate the laptop.....way late.

I have not been shy in the past about shopping online. But after the Amazon experience this year, I will never shop for Christmas from them again. Had a great experience (again) using the Bose online shopping and buying a Foosball table from "tablesoccer.com". But Amazon and Best Buy appear to be totally maxed out on their service.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

Jan
aol.com

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01/06/2005 07:58 PM

I purchased a new 2005 Audi A6 with navigation. After using car one week, had to to return to dealership, as navigation on the auto did not work. Am already waiting a week for the dealership to get the parts to repair it for me. This is a 50,000 dolllar car. Where is quality control?

James
aol.com

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01/06/2005 07:48 PM

Barry,

Just in the past 3 years...

Just my Apple experience

1. Bought a dual processor Powermac - suffered from random crashes and had to return and incur a 10% restocking fee rather than deal with it
any further. Problems out of the box.

2. Bought Apple iBook G3 - Logic Board (Motherboard) failed and laptop
suffered from video glitches and crashes. Problem within 2 months of
purchase.

3. Bought Apple Powerbook G4 - Screen suffered from faulty latch,
defective battery (couldn't hold charge), and a screen full of "white
spots" from pressure points on the LCD screen. Problem out of the box.

4. Bought Apple iBook G4 - laptop had video glitches and freezes due to
faulty video card and had to get logic board replaced. Problem within 2
months of purchase.

All this within 2 years

I've purchased 6 Macs in the past 2 years and have had problems with 4
out of 6 (66%).

With iPods (7 total) - no problems.

Dell experience
1. Received desktop with broken monitor.
2. Received (another) desktop DOA.
3. Received laptop with faulty wireless card. Dell came out 2 times to
fix it. Couldn't fix it so I had to buy another one to plug into a PC
card slot.
4. Dell Axim handheld - DOA.
The other 5 desktops I've purchased since have had no problems.

Sony Vaio T series laptop
Never showed up - disappeared during shipping (Fedex).

Canon Digital Camera
Camera took pictures that were all white right out of the boxed.

HP Deskjet printer
1. DOA, replacement from HP was also DOA.
Got another replacement that shipped with the wrong power supply (for
Europe) and had to wait 3 weeks for HP to send a replacement power
supply.
Took me almost two months to get a replacement printer that was
functional.

IBM
One Thinkpad and one Desktop - no problems

I've heard that with electronics if you don't have a problem in the
first 90 days then you're in the clear (this person was making a case
against extended warranties).

Also the quality of customer service is important because my experience
with them definitely influenced my decision to buy another product from
that brand.

For instance although I've had a high failure rate with Apple, they've
always been very responsive and hassle free. This probably is because I
prefer to go to an Apple store and use the Genius Bar who are more
receptive to customer concerns since they can see the problem
firsthand. This is probably why I keep buying Macs.
With Dell, Sony and HP, I've had really bad experiences.
Dell's hold times (30 min to 1 hour) and speaking to a rep in India was
really trying. Also their failure to resolve a problem after multiple
tries was disappointing.

Sony's customer service is very fragmented and always required multiple call transfers before being able to speak with the right person. I basically had to take the initiative to resolve my issue (which was Fedex lost the computer in transit at a distribution center) and handle the loss claim, which I should not have since Sony was the shipper. HP gave me the 3rd degree before ascertaining that my printer was DOA and then took 2 months to replace it due to mistakes on their part (sending out wrong stuff).

Canon and IBM have always been very responsive and provided quick resolutions to my issues.

Thanks,

Brian
Columbia U, NYC
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