Voice Recognition Software ?
Ow. That really hurts. Shoulder, back, forearm. Ouch.
Self medicate. Ibuprofen (doesn't help) Alleve (double over the counter dosage) Flexaril (prescription).
Wait a month.
Doesn't get better.
Go to the doc.
Hmmm, I don't like that popping sound.
X-rays, MRI.
Diagnosis:
Torn rotator cuff (minor), torn shoulder cartilage (major), compressed vertebrae (minor), pinched nerve (could go either way), major pain in shoulder, down the right arm.
Ask Orthopedist "Surgery?"
Doc Shapiro (real name) says "Well, let's do everything we can to avoid it."
Physical therapy, massage therapy, acupuncture.
Doc 's Advice: "Get yourself an ergonomic mouse, make sure you have good chair and desk at work, oh, and see if you can stop typing 5000 words a day, you idiot. We use voice recognition software in the medical office."
Which leads me to ask the assembled multitude a question:
I need a dictation/transcription program. In the office, a Dell running XP (no plans for Windows Vista anytime soon). Fujitsu Lifebook P1510d touchscreen laptop (also XP).
At home, an Apple iMac and a iBook.
The two pictured nearby seem pretty well reviewed: For the Macs, iListen, and for the Windows PCs, Dragon Naturally Speaking.
Does anyone have any specific pros or cons about these, and or any other suggestions?
(My shoulder/arm thanks you . . . )
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 | 07:00 PM | Permalink
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You mean, YOU have to type all of your own posts? I'm shocked! I had the image that BR has a legion of long legged beauties at the ready to type and post for him. Then plays golf rest of the day.
Posted by: Tim | Aug 22, 2007 7:24:17 PM
The Dragon product is very good. Accuracy is excellent and will improve over time as it "learns" your particular speech patterns.
Posted by: Marty | Aug 22, 2007 7:25:22 PM
1. You are very lucky to have a doctor who doesn't just say "we can get you into surgery on Friday!"
2. I've had both shoulders at different times and they do get better. It takes time. I've had good luck with Glucosamine/chondroitin. It might not work but it can't hurt.
Posted by: Bob A | Aug 22, 2007 7:30:07 PM
I'd suggest you contact organizations for the blind who use these stuff on all levels......They'd probably be a good resource of info.
Posted by: zell | Aug 22, 2007 7:33:13 PM
Mrs. Dawg is an RPT (Physical Therapist). She formerly worked for a world famous back specialist. He too was a surgey = failure type for the most part. The best thing she ever did for me that can be repeated and/or shared in public is the gift purchase of a real chair. Real office chairs cost at least $500 and that's for utilitarian models. The HP-4MV printer and the chair are both a dozen years old and they remain the only items who's cost is long forgotten but who's value endures.
Oh, this Mac consultant says; the iListen works. Having heard your voice and cadence and intonation under the extreme duress of being Kudlowed I venture it will work even better for you. The only problem I've encountered is with the phrase "the past is no guarantee of future performance." For some reason it types out "...greatest story never told." ;-)
Posted by: Rob Dawg | Aug 22, 2007 7:35:31 PM
My clients who use Dragon Naturally Speaking are very happy with it, as long as you understand a few things about it:
1. Get a powerful PC with plenty of RAM - Core 2 Duo or above of the CPU, at least 1 Gb and preferably 2 Gb RAM.
2. Get a good microphone, not a $10. POS.
3. Be prepared to train it - not just the initial training, that only takes a half hour or so - and understand that the accuracy really improves after the first month or so of using it.
4. Be prepared for difficulties if your voice changes significantly for some reason (sore throat, stuffed nose, etc.)
If these conditions are acceptable, you should be happy with the results. Most of my clients who have used it for over a year say they can't imagine going back.
Posted by: HankP | Aug 22, 2007 8:01:03 PM
I have a possible solution for you. It's called copytalk. We use it in our office. talk into a voicemail and a word document is then emailed to you. You will still need to edit it.
http://www.copytalk.com/MS.po?promocode=ct
Posted by: JohnnyB | Aug 22, 2007 8:02:02 PM
I was heavily involved with Dragon Systems back in the early 90s when they were just getting traction. The software has made major advances and works very well. The toughest part is the actual use - getting over sitting and talking to your monitor. If you work alone, it's a piece of cake, but if you are around people, it's a different story.
Good luck.
Posted by: Tim T | Aug 22, 2007 8:03:28 PM
fwiw Barry,
Mrs. Shark is a doctor who (like Mrs. Dawg's former employer) believes surgery is only for the worst cases.
She strongly recommends seeking high-quality PT (like Mrs. Dawg?), but avoid chiropracters at all costs.
Posted by: Pool Shark | Aug 22, 2007 8:05:42 PM
First thing I'd do is switch the mouse to your other hand. Takes some getting used to, but in my long experience with computers, all of my wrist/shoulder/arm pain has been caused not by typing, but by the mouse. If typing caused it, you'd have the problem in both arms, right?
Then take a vacation from your computers.
Posted by: Charlotte A. | Aug 22, 2007 8:08:06 PM
I haven't messed with any speech to text stuff in years and it's probably gotten better, but it used to be just inaccurate enough to not bother with. Anyway, text to speech was far more entertaining, you could spend hours in a sea of filth.
Your symptoms sound more like Home Depot DIY syndrome than computer related, but I would offer that there is nothing ergonomic about using laptops unless you supplement them with a real keyboard and monitor. Chairs are important and I am reminded that maybe 20 years ago, there was somebody who was selling Recaro seats that had been converted into office chairs. Very cool and very expensive, but I doubt if you can find them any more. At least you would never fall out of one.
==whipswaw==
Posted by: whipsaw | Aug 22, 2007 8:12:21 PM
abc
Posted by: Bob Brooklyn | Aug 22, 2007 8:20:11 PM
Add a good trackball to the ergonomic mouse: Switching occasionnally from one to the other eased my wife's repetitive motion (cubital tunnel) problems so completely she was full-motion/pain-free within a month and ever since, no surgery required.
Posted by: RW | Aug 22, 2007 8:21:18 PM
After a summer of 60+ hour workweeks, I had cubital tunnel diagnosed. An arachnid looking Aero chair and a trackball mouse worked wonders along with an icing/stretching/alternating mousing hand regimen. I highly recommend a trackball mouse with the ball in the center of the mouse... http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Optical-Marble-Mouse-USB/dp/B00005T406/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-3733563-9992053?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1187828897&sr=8-2
Posted by: Matt | Aug 22, 2007 8:31:06 PM
Barry,
I am currently in PT for bi-lateral shoulder problems relating to shoulder instability from abnormally lose tendons. Obviously your problems are different than mine but sitting at a desk and typing all day takes a big toll on my shoulders and PT is, and has, helped tremendously. I would recommend at least giving it a try.
Posted by: some guy | Aug 22, 2007 8:45:53 PM
I just recently got symptoms - I was using a Trackball Explorer, but scrolling with my thumb eventually got me a lot of hurt at the base of my thumb. When it started to burn up my arm I made the switch. I got Dragon Preferred 9. I have been using it for a month and it has already paid for itself 3 times. I'm not even using most of the commands - you can cut your typing about 80% and avoid using the mouse when possible.
The tip about the microphone is correct. The only problem I had with Dragon 9 was the cheap mike that came with it. You need a headset that sits comfortably and positively
on your head, and a mike gooseneck that bends away from your mouth in case you want to eat something or wipe your mouth, etc., without taking off the headset.
Dragon doesn't just listen to your voice. It reads your writing. Make sure Your Documents only contains things you wrote when you load up Dragon the first few times. I had a bunch of foreign language documents, and Dragon sometimes very unobtrusively wonders if I want a French word (it doesn't put it in, but I can see what it's thinking in a little box). I don't think it does this all the time so you can switch back later.
You can do macro commands, and there's an add-on called Know-Brainer that claims to give you much more powerful commands, but I don't mind doing light editing on the keyboard as I dictate.
Just as important, the ergonomic mice. My choice was the Airobic Mouse (formerly Quill Mouse). It's big. You lay your hand loosely IN it (it's like a hand "holster") and your fingers wrap around what amounts to a vertical mouse. You move the cursor with your arm instead of your hand - look at the pictures of it and you'll see. Then you click very gently without counter-pressure from the thumb (the buttons are very light). There's a scroll wheel in the middle you operate with your long finger. The thumb does nothing at all.
Even better, what used to be called Mouse Tool is now called NIB and it can be purchased with this mouse. Nib is optical clicking. You position the cursor in a time window of about a half-second (adjustable) and IT CLICKS. No button at all. For right clicks, you pass the cursor over a little toolbar that makes the next click a right click (or double click). For surfing this is the coolest because left clicks are 80% of clicking, and they're easy to operate. The only trick is "parking" your cursor in a neutral (non-clickable) part of the web page (and some of these pages hardly have any blank space). When the Nib is on blank space it "clicks" but nothing happens.
You can even use a "gesture", a little jog right or left, to generate a click. Clicks only happen when you stop moving the cursor. It's easier than it sounds and you can get so used to it that clicking feels funny.
I haven't even tried out the drag-and-drop feature. The trick is that you have to know where the cursor is going to go pretty exactly while the "hold" is on. But supposedly all the product material was done "clicklessly" so it does work. The easy part is getting rid of all your left clicks. The Nib can be turned off with one click in case you want to go back to clicking.
There's also a thing called the Zero Tension Mouse. This is similar to the Quill, another vertical mouse, but you wrap your whole hand around it like a joystick and the buttons are on the back. It also has a big dish that your hand rests in, and your arm moves the cursor. I liked the looks of this but the scroll wheel is on top for the thumb so I passed. If your thumb is OK you might like this one even more.
The back-grip no-thumb design is taken to its extreme point with the Alpha Grip. This thing looks like a BIG game controller, but it is a complete keyboard in a radically different form. You grip it with both hands. Your thumbs hit some keys in front, but most keys are on the back - and you have to hit them without looking. Obviously this takes some retraining, and certain keystrokes require two buttons (there is a little trackball in front for your thumbs too, dead center). But the QWERTY principle is still SORT OF there, and I want to try this because you can type lying down - anywhere, as long as you can see the monitor. And instead of pronating your wrists parallel to the keyboard (bad) you're holding things like you hold a glass (good).
Less radical but still on my get list is the Roller Mouse. This is a front-lip-of-the-keyboard attachment that features a roller bar. You can "roll" the cursor up and down, and then by moving a finger from side to side on the bar move the cursor right and left (as with a laptop touchpad). By rolling and sliding you can approximate diagonal movement. Then normal mouse buttons are under that. I assume you can drag things with two fingers, one on the bar and one on a button - but all of these gimmicks emphasize that arm movement is good for you. They recommend short breaks when you are mousing a lot, and I find that to be good advice too.
You're welcome! Now how 'bout some good financial advice for a poor man?
Posted by: Jeff | Aug 22, 2007 9:04:52 PM
I've had similar shoulder problems, it can be horrible. At worst, I went a couple weeks with only two or three hours sleep each night. I'd advise:
* learn to mouse with the other hand. It took me a month or two.
* get into PT and work really hard.
* don't use the damn mouse wheel.
* Ibuprofen. Lots of ibuprofen.
* get a keyboard tray for your desk.
* work really hard at PT. As much pain as you can take as many times per day as you can make time for.
Posted by: Dave | Aug 22, 2007 9:12:15 PM
The biggest thing I recommend is a trackball mouse and SWITCH HANDS. You can quickly learn to use the opposite hand with a trackball mouse. I did, and it worked wonders for shoulder problem. Dragon is OK but there is a learning curve and it will probably test your patience.
Posted by: George | Aug 22, 2007 9:20:07 PM
I have tried trackballs and they caused a lot more repetitive motion stress than did mice; my wrist was killing me and I had to return it within a couple of days. Tried a thumb-ball mouse with similar results. You're offloading the pushing with shoulder + elbow to smaller joints and it just caused more pain for me.
The wife got me a wireless keyboard with a touchpad last year so no more mice for me:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/192&cl=us,en
You should have good luck with Dragon if you select it. I recommend at least double whatever the minimum required specs are. Avoid Vista like the plague it is, at least until Service Pack 1 is out...I have had significant and extremely annoying problems with it, especially in the realm of USB devices and drivers. Partly this is due to poor manufacturer support to date, and partly due to poor implementation by MSFT, but the end result is: many things that worked flawlessly under XP work poorly or not at all under Vista.
Posted by: Johnny | Aug 22, 2007 9:35:54 PM
If you don't have a high-end ergonomic chair, and know how to adjust the chair and your workspace, start there.
I have a high-end ($1400.00 MSRP) chair that I bought for a fraction of its retail price at a charity auction, and that has been the best single investment in my life.
Start with a chair, and someone who understands the relationship between chair, work surface, and mouse.
I've worked with voice software, even recently, and it's hateful if you know how to type.
Posted by: Aeolus | Aug 22, 2007 9:47:34 PM
Barry, I have had excellent success with similar problems by spending time with a massage therapist. I recommend you try it. As a bonus, it feels great.
Posted by: Todd | Aug 22, 2007 9:55:35 PM
As a horse person - who will ride out a bucking horse - a one particular horse really would leave the ground and make a turn at the same town. Before I finally left the saddle
I held on to the horn and did my shoulder in
I actually heard something coming loose as i was launched into the air. I elected not to have surgery - or pt - I thought I would just live it out (the surgeon said natural healing takes longer than surgery) It was certainly more than several months until the pain was tolerable. That was in the fall of 2004 by the fall of 2005 I was 85%
better. My shoulder today is stronger than ever. In the fall of 2004 I was 62 years old - age might have something to do with it. By the way - I had a hamburger at Peter Luger's yesterday (at your suggestion) before I left for the west - you were correct - one of the best ever.
Posted by: paul | Aug 22, 2007 9:58:58 PM
In addition to all the good suggestions already made I would like to add getting a foot rest to go along with the good chair. I have a plastic one made by Rubbermaid. It allows you to adjust the angle of your feet as you move. It has more of an effect on the lower back than the shoulders but we are talking strain reduction here, right?
Also get up at least once an hour and stretch a bit. Get pt suggestions on what is best.
Posted by: alexd | Aug 22, 2007 10:18:07 PM
I sit in a Herman Miller Aeron Chair all day long and it's done my back a lot of good. Regarding your software dilemma, I think Dragon Systems is probably better than the Apple equivalent. With that in mind, why not pick up some extra RAM and a copy of Parallels for OS X and you can use Dragon for both home and work.
Posted by: DCM | Aug 22, 2007 10:48:32 PM
FWIW...
I recommend a wired, optical gamer mouse.
A chair you can kneel in saved my back (not specifically that one).
But most important, when you are better, go to the gym...
Posted by: Aaron | Aug 22, 2007 10:52:37 PM
